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The dislike for Jury service.

edited 2011-08-24 17:29:36 in General
I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
It seems to be quite common when Jury service is brought up in discussion online that quite a few people always mention wanting to avoid it at all costs.

I really don't understand why, I've been on jury service and I found it fascinating seeing how the courts worked and being a part of it.
I got the time I had to take off work paid for so all in all it seemed like a win-win situation.
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Comments

  • When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    If you don't get an interesting case, then it ends up being a bunch of tedium. I suppose you're more into the court system than others. Or maybe the US court system is inherently more boring than the UK's.
  • edited 2011-08-24 17:50:19
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    Well the UK's court system doesn't allow cameras in the courtroom so it has mystery? (Ignoring you can sit in the public gallery.)

    Also all our lawyers and judges wear wigs and robes still so it might look less boring here :p

    Eh my case wasn't special just something where a chavvy woman accused her elderly neighbour of stalking her in ludicrous ways:

    • The woman said she was in her garden talking about going to a shopping centre, when she went to the shopping centre he was walking out of a shop 'with an evil grin'
    The man had a pet dog, he went to buy dog food from the pet shop not to mention he was leaving when she had turned up anyway.

    • That when she left the house she was walking down the road towards her house and then out of a road from the park the man walked out and was walking ahead of her.
    This is just stupid, he was walking his dog, and returning home as he lived near her.

    She also accused him of having naked photos of her child, but the Judge had to step in to say the police searched and found nothing.

    The defence also noted she was applying to move to better council housing, a sure fire way to get transferred in housing would have been if the neighbour was given a restraining order.
  • When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    walking out of a shop 'with an evil grin'


    I really hope it looked like this: 



    She also accused him of having naked photos of her child, but the Judge had to step in to say the police searched and found nothing.


    This is of interest to the Pedophile General. But on a more serious note, is there anything in British government documents pertaining to a parallel of the 4th Amendment; that is, a restriction on searches and seizures without a warrant?
  • I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    They would have needed a search warrant.

  • When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    Well, in the U.S. you need "reasonable suspicion" or something about a person in order to obtain a search warrant for their property.
  • edited 2011-08-24 18:09:19
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    Yeah you need that too but I have no idea what the 4th amendment is so I just assumed you were only on about the warrant itself, sorry.


  • When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


  • I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    Ok yeah we basically have the same thing over here but the wording is different.

    As to why they had reason for searching: probably as he was attending court regarding the allegations of his neighbour.
  • When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    Isn't that a little cyclical, though? Couldn't you, theoretically, plant something in a guy's house without his knowing, then randomly call a civil suit against him in order to get the police to find the planted evidence?
  • I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    It does, it was an assumption of mine, I can only assume that there was more than one allegation or something else that might have lead to the search, as the legislation protects him from it without reason.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I don't think I'd be good for Jury duty because I'd try to turn it into a production of Twelve Angry Men.
  • I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    I remember waiting in the Jurors lounge and talking to the old woman next to me about swearing on the bible/atheist swearing about if they had a copy of every holy book 'like the Quran'.
    She says 'If I were ever in court I wouldn't like to by tried by one of them ahaha,'


  • edited 2011-08-24 22:12:05
    Cue-bey
    There's also the fact that they pay you less for jury duty than pretty much anything else that is not a part time minimum wage job at least in Canada, so if you're already tight on finances and they call you away for a case that goes long it could result in a serious hit to your savings.
  • ^ This.

    And my dad's boss is a douche who refuses to compensate him.
  • I'd be pretty interested in helping out with jury duty, but I suppose I might change my tune if I had a career.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    > I'd be pretty interested in helping out with jury duty, but I suppose I might change my tune if I had a career.
  • edited 2011-08-25 08:19:26
    Mr. The Edge goes to Washington

    I was called for jury duty and dismissed because I simply wasn't chosen for the jury. I would have been dismissed anyway because I was going back to school in a month.


    As for the dislike of jury duty. People hate being bothered by the government. People also hate their everyday life to be interrupted. People also don't like other people. There are a lot of reasons people dislike jury duty.

  • I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    You'd think that if the governments over there wanted you to be a juror they'd make it so it didn't cause trouble for you to be one.

    UK wise the law requires employers to fill out forms regarding your compensation, and if you end up on a super long case (I narrowly missed out on a murder case that would have been going on for 6 weeks) then you get compensated even more.

    Also you can't be fired/let go if you attend jury service.
  • Mr. The Edge goes to Washington

    US wise, you shouldn't be fired, but that's been known to happen from time to time wish ironically lead to the court room. As for compensation, they don't go to the trouble of requiring employers to fill out forms or anything. The state just compensates your time with however much they feel like it seems. When I was up for jury selection, this one old guy tried and tried to reason his way out of serving in the jury but he couldn't get out of it at all. Plus, when we were actually in the court house. We were kept waiting for hours before anything happened. A serious pain in the ass.

  • I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    Yeah waiting in the court was a bit of a pain, but we were given pre paid cards for buying food and there were books and magazines to read.
  • When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    We get no books and magazines. 
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I find jury service really interesting, but that may be because of several factors:

    1. I'm much, much more civic-minded than most people.  (Note my involvement in politics and interest in policy.)
    2. My daily life currently is rather boring.
    3. I haven't ever done jury duty before.

    ^^ Thanks for the advice; I'll be sure to bring my own book if I ever get called for jury duty.

    Here in Connecticut, you get paid for jury duty some measly amount (like $50 a day) if your service goes over five days.
  • The "avoid jury duty at all costs" thinking is undoubtedly related to most people's wish not to have their usual daily routine messed about with. It's not such a problem when you're fairly young or retired because you have more time, but once you start getting jobs, kids and so on, anything that takes you away from that is a real hassle.


    Also, a very high proportion of people who end up in front of  a jury are guilty as hell and only playing the system for a (slim) chance of an acquittal. I'd be perfectly happy to leave all criminal cases to judges and save everyone's time. Actually, most are already tried by magistrates, not juries, anyway.  

  • ^My own fear is that I'll either screw up and ruin someone's life unfairly, let someone get away with murder, etc.  Or end up having to convict / acquit based on a law or technicality I don't agree with.  Or the trial will result in a slap on the wrist for someone who is truly dangerous or a very long sentance for someone who deserves a slap on the wrist.

  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Well, assuming you live in the United States, our legal system is intentionally built such that the first is more likely than the second.  In other words, "innocent until proven guilty".

    As for the odd law or technicality you don't agree with, you might be able to get out of jury duty based on that, or something.  Although in those cases they might not be constitutional either.


  • Yeah, if you don't think the law is just you probably will not be selected for that particular case.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Do they present to you the theory of the crime or other relevant details of the case before asking you whether you object?
  • edited 2011-08-25 16:55:08
    Loser
    BlackHumor,
    Yeah, if you don't think the law is just you probably will not be selected for that particular case.

    If a remember correctly they use that kind of narrowing down in death penalty cases, using so-called "death-qualified jurors" in order to ensure that no one is going to absolutely refuse to impose capital punishment no matter what. I think you could make a pretty decent argument that doing something like that makes juries less fair, or at least less representative of the population as whole. Then again, from what I hear, jury picking is a weird process anyway and choosing jurors who will never give the death penalty may skew things too.

    FrodoGoofballCoTV,
    My own fear is that I'll either screw up and ruin someone's life unfairly, let someone get away with murder, etc.  Or end up having to convict / acquit based on a law or technicality I don't agree with.  Or the trial will result in a slap on the wrist for someone who is truly dangerous or a very long sentance for someone who deserves a slap on the wrist.

    Yep, I pretty much share those fears. Maybe I take that kind of thing too seriously, but I think it can be pretty scary being an arbiter of someone's fate like that.

    The_Edge,
    As for the dislike of jury duty. People hate being bothered by the government. People also hate their everyday life to be interrupted. People also don't like other people. There are a lot of reasons people dislike jury duty.

    I think if you add people not wanting to wait a while during the selection process you pretty much have described all of the main reasons why people dislike jury service.
  • There's very, very little chance of ending up on a case that will actually be on murder scale.  The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of the time it's just crap like DUI's and trespassing.

    What annoys me about jury duty isn't missing a whole day of work and getting compensated approximately one hour's wage, or even the tedium of sitting through all that stuff.  I'm willing to do that for the sake of making our legal system work as well as possible.

    What gets to me is how the best way to get out of jury duty is to show up and actually present yourself as an intelligent person who can weigh facts and evidence.  Like 90% of the time you'll get challenged off the jury by the attorney with the weakest case.
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