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How some people think swords are the best weapon in x apocalypse

edited 2011-11-16 13:08:13 in General
No rainbow star
...Why? I'd much rather have a crowbar in nigh on any apocalypse. FAR more useful since it has multiple uses! A sword is only useful if you need just a weapon (not going to say 'only if you need to cut up someone' because I just KNOW Alex would dispute that with things like the pommel and crossguard). A crowbar can be used as a weapon and a general purpose tool
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Comments

  • I think I'd rather have a knife. Tons of practical uses, and you can't hold a crowbar to someone's neck.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Generally speaking things that can function both as tools and weapons are agreed to be this the best. It's just people insistent on macho fuckery that think this.
  • In most apocalypses I'd frankly rather have a gun.  In the space of going through however many clips I can carry I hope I'd at least have found other necessary tools.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Guns are loud and have finite ammo, plus have limited utility. I'd prefer things like axes, machetes, and shovels that are multi-purpose.
  • Good people don't end up here.
    Looting the bodies: the gift that keeps on giving?
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    If you're murdering people for their supplies rather than banding up to make use of numerous abilitiies you're doing it wrong.
  • Good people don't end up here.
    That was in response to Bee's post.
  • BeeBee
    edited 2011-11-16 15:30:32
    Regardless of what kind of apocalypse it is, chances are there are going to be a lot of empty homes.  No need to walk around capping other survivors like a psycho to get mundane, relatively ubiquitous tools.

    And for situations that call for a weapon, I'd rather have a small, lightweight ranged one that I could probably carry along with a melee weapon for emergencies in case I empty out, yeah.  In the usual zombie apocalypse scenario, for instance, getting up close and personal with a walking contagious disease is the fucking last thing you want to do.
  • Actually, I can see a gun without ammo being more useful than a sword in a number of situations. It's just as good as a gun with ammo provided the guy on the other end won't call your bluff and you don't really want to shoot in the first place.

    Come to think of it, you'll probably want as many weapons as you can reasonably hang onto. Your first choice of a single weapon is probably already going be whatever you're better off in battle with in general.
  • edited 2011-11-16 15:31:00
    a little muffled
    A crowbar is the best weapon if you're a physicist with a ridiculously souped-up hazmat suit.
  • BeeBee
    edited 2011-11-16 15:34:36
    Frankly, a prevailing attitude of idiots wanting to take zombies at melee range like a boss might be the only reason a zombie apocalypse could even get off the ground.  Propagation doesn't work so well when you have to subdue an apex predator capable of ranged and improvised weaponry just to eat.
  • I read this as "some people think words are the best weapon in an apocalypse."


    Not actually as stupid as it sounds since you might have to talk your way out of difficult situations, win people over and so on. Having said all that, I'd still want a gun in the first instance, and a knife as well.


     

  • Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    Wouldn't smoke grenades work well with zombies? You could escape from a horde or go through one under a cover of smoke.
  • You can change. You can.
    Go through the horde in a cover of smoke sounds a lot more dangerous, as it means that your visibility is impaired. And they normally have enhanced senses. OTOH, you could use like...toxic gas and a gas mask.
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    How some people think swords are the best weapon in x apocalypse


    Emphasis mine.

    But they almost are. Without industrial production for gun ammunition and without any kinda of common, sword-stopping heavy armours, both their modern and period disadvantages are gone.

    In any case, a sword and a crowbar aren't nearly in the same class of stuff. A crowbar is a simple, lightweight tool that can be easily procured. A sword is actually a reasonably complex piece of technology, and a good one costs a fair bit to this day. In a practical sense, there's nothing stopping a swordsman from also having a crowbar.

    One thing to keep in mind, of course, is that few people know how to use a sword, making it nothing more than a sharp club in their hands.
  • I would rather use Hokuto Shinken in an Apocalyptic Situation, thank you very much.
  • You can change. You can.
    Someone take this swordwanker out of here! >:(
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I was destined for this thread, Juan. Trying to move me will only end in tears and mighty apocalypse.
  • Then I will break your face with my Fist of Compassion to stop the tears from flowing!
  • As far as I understand it, guns are still the best for this environment. Alex's arguments against that seems to be related to their lack of availability. I'm pretty sure that there's enough stockpiled in certain areas to last someone a very violent, very long lifetime.

    I don't know much about guns, but it seems to me that they're going to be pretty intuitive for a beginner if we're sticking to smaller guns and aren't talking about maintenance. Also, you can still make use of one even if your fitness level is poor.

    The question of what melee weapon is best for someone without training is an interesting one.
  • You can change. You can.
    Alex's arguments against that seems to be related to their lack of availability. I'm pretty sure that there's enough stockpiled in certain areas to last someone a very violent, very long lifetime.

    My first thought was Alex being holed up in a bunker with all of the swords while hugging one all mad and insane and stuff. 

    you needed to know this, btw
  • edited 2011-11-16 18:13:53
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    ^^ Guns are less of a concern than ammunition. Anyone with some know-how, components and tools can make a gun, but producing modern ammo types effectively requires industrial production methods. If you have industrial production methods, then you don't really have an apocalypse scenario. Certain areas do have very large ammunition stockpiles, but those are going to be in government or military remnant hands from the beginning. What ends up happening to these stockpiles is anyone's guess, but I suspect plenty of people will devise their own hybrids of black powder and modern guns.

    In context of a country like Australia, where there's an almost 100% gun ban amongst civilians, the most effective piece of military hardware one can own is, in fact, a sword.

    As for close combat weapons and training, there isn't really a good one for zero training. What makes a gun great isn't so much its distance or stopping power, but the result of those two things; it alters the "metagame" of combat, giving the combatant with superior position and initiative a very deadly and immediate advantage. Close combat is pitting skill against skill; with a gun, your adversary's skill can't resist your skills with theirs, if you follow.

    That said, there have been short training methods devised throughout history that have proven effective. For instance, the Germans actually used commoners with longswords on the battlefield sometimes, giving them one day's training. They only knew two strikes, but in the metagame of infantry combat, that was enough to allow them to dominate. Similarly, spear training is generally measured in days or weeks.

    ^ alucardcackle.avi
  • "Certain areas do have very large ammunition stockpiles, but those are going to be in government or military remnant hands from the beginning."

    I keep forgetting you don't live in America.
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    At the risk of a political derail, I was working under the assumption that even a government that allows its civilians firearms would try and prevent ammunition stockpiling.
  • I don't know of any U.S. laws that limit the amount of ammo you can own.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I only know some rudimentary fencing. Honestly, the issue with both swords and guns is that they're a lot more complicated than people give credit and could end hurting themselves.

    If I were to be traveling (which I probably wouldn't want to in an apocalypse situation anyways) lightweight tools that can also function in as weapons are best. 

    As for the advantage of range, well in a zombie apocalypse, the issue is numbers and if the numbers are higher than you can handle up close, running is the best option anyways.
  • In what way is it complicated to figure out how to load a gun, hold it steady, and fire? I'm not being sarcastic, it's an honest question.

    Never having learned how to use a gun, I get the impression there's a safety on a lot of guns, yeah? From what I hear, a gun isn't considered completely safe in terms of the precautions you should follow unless you know it's completely emptied of ammo, but figuring out that mechanism seems like it'd help you to not shoot things on accident.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Guns are complicated machines. Ignoring that they're actually more complicated than click and point (there's recoil for starters) and keeping them clean and working is also full-time work.

    And if you get into higher-power weapons, you don't even aim at the part of the body you want to hit so there's that.
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    And depending on range and environmental conditions, firing a low-powered gun might require the same kind of thing. Plus, reloading in a fight and reloading at the range can be two different things.

    Over to the other side of it, one of the worst things about a sword is that you'll cut yourself if you suck. They require cleaning after every fight, and possibly some neatening up with a grindstone.

    the only way to win is not to play The best way to survive is not to fight, but make peace with your immediate neighbours and work towards establishing some kind of wider trade relationship. If that can extend to the nearest farms, you've done well.
  • No rainbow star
    Alright Alex, if you want to get technical, I'd say a mace is a better weapon than a sword in an apocalypse. Even if it requires more maitainence (not sure if it does), it can be used not only to beat someone, but also to smash down doors and the like. And it would probably also be easier for a novice to use
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