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'No calculators'

edited 2011-05-17 20:27:44 in General
CRIMINAL SCUM!
Fuck that bullshit. After you're in highschool it shouldn't matter a damn shit whether you use calculators on homework or a test. Wasting time on adding simple math is menial and furthermore obsolete. If you can't count back change at a register that isn't nary a strike against you.

It's hardly a wonder the US lags so much in education. Our public schools are shit. Teaching a shit curriculum.
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Comments

  • edited 2011-05-17 20:36:05
    In my classes, whenever they said "no calculators", that was for exams where they wouldn't help anyway. Stuff like differential equations and physics formulas.
  • ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    Calculators enable most people to rely completely on them when you should be able to figure out what 54x6x2 is by yourself.
  • edited 2011-05-17 20:58:02
    CRIMINAL SCUM!
    ^ Obsolete. You'll scarcely find yourself in need of maths and not able to come by a calculator. They're built into most hand held devices.

    You might as well add the abacus back into our schools.

    Besides, it's division and fractions, damn those fractions, that's harder. That's just simple multiplication. You learn that shit in grade school.
  • I'm fairly good at doing this stuff without a calculator, but it's pretty pointless for anything other than showing off. if a skill can be replaced by a device worth 2 bucks, then it's not a very important skill to have.
  • edited 2011-05-17 21:08:41
    Has friends besides tanks now
    ^ Pretty much the same with me. I can amuse some people I know with multi-digit mental multiplication, but in most other respects I'm a ditz or socially incompetent, and knowing how to keep track of digits and multiplication tables really isn't all that impressive, whereas difficulty following directions and paying attention can be crippling. Point being that there are other parts of life that should be more of a worry.
  • ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    The excuse my teacher made in 2001 was "You can't bring a calculator with you everywhere, and it's faster to memorize most math problems than to have to retreat to the calculator to figure them out".


    now, you can bring a calculator with you via most technology, but I am glad I memorized most multiplication/division/math/subtraction problems so I don't have that "pause" where I figure it out in my head.


    For more advanced math though I fully support calculator use.
  • You can change. You can.
    I'm fairly good at doing this stuff without a calculator, but it's pretty pointless for anything other than showing off. if a skill can be replaced by a device worth 2 bucks, then it's not a very important skill to have.

    This, really.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    > ^ Obsolete. You'll scarcely find yourself in need of maths and not able
    to come by a calculator. They're built into most hand held devices.

    Really now?  I find quick mental calculations very useful.  The point of mental calculations isn't to find exact values--that's when you'd bring out a calculator anyway.  The point is to make estimations of things very quickly and efficiently.

    Tell me, which looks better at a restaurant, pulling out your cell phone and crunching the numbers on a bill, or being able to multiply roughly by 15% in your head?  Note that I don't actually multiply by 0.15--I simply knock the decimal one place over and then add half of that.  (Note that I'm also guilty of pulling out my cell phone and crunching numbers to figure out the tip.)

    And more recently, I was estimating the approximate "multiplier" for what amount of rent is roughly equivalent to what amount of mortgage principal.  I used a calculator, yes, but setting up the math that led to actual number-crunching was all done without a calculator, between me and a piece of paper.  Not to mention that the multiplier I ended up getting, I ended up playing with it in the shower.  Yes, because it was 125, it was quite easy to divide and multiply by it, so I ended up getting to test it a few times.
  • edited 2011-05-17 21:25:29
    [tɕagɛn]
    Isn't higher level basically impossible/ridiculously time-consuming without calculators?
  • edited 2011-05-17 21:34:09
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Define higher-level, just out of curiosity. I can probably see what you mean, and there are definitely some functions (trigonometric functions of angles that aren't 30 degrees, 45 degrees, 60 degrees, and so on, radicals of imperfect squares, certain exponentials, etc) that would be unthinkable, at least to me, without a calculator and other relevant information.
  • edited 2011-05-17 21:33:32
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    ^^ That too.

    You can get the TI-89, which can do differentiation (mostly) and integration (sometimes), but anything past that is going to require you to figure things out, and the only time you'll be using a computer is when we're talking about tasks that are just far too tedious for a human to do anyway--such as a slope field of a differential equation.

    If you're solving systems of linear equations, yes, you can do them by hand...but even if you're using matrix manipulations, solving say 16 equations for 16 variables is still going to be a gigantic pain.

    ^ Well, as I said above, most of the time the point of mental calculation isn't to get exact answers, but to get ballpark answers or simple answers, much faster.
  • @GMH Yes, as I said, showing off and fun, no more, no less. I never said it was entirely useless, but it's certainly not very important, specially not in school/college/whatever.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I still argue that the speed increase from doing these things mentally (with at most a few marks on any writable surface) is worth it.
  • I don't think it's statistically significant, particularly when simple calculations often lead to less simple ones that take more time to solve than a calculator.
  • "16 variables in 16 equations"

    y would do
  • Real life is a bitch.
  • Really?  When was the last time, in a non-school/work setting you had to do that?
  • Ehm, that's what I meant when I said Real Life. As in, when trying to make a model that accounts for stuff that happens in real life, that kind of thing might happen.
  • You know what I'm tired of? Forgetting to carry a number. Cursing myself. And having to do the whole problem over again because it's too complicated to figure out where I fucked up.
  • edited 2011-05-17 23:03:03
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I try to avoid doing things that involve carrying numbers when possible, or keep number-carrying to a minimum.  If anything i just write stuff down if I have to.

    That's because carrying numbers is a pain especially when you have a ton of numbers to carry.

    If possible I find alternative ways to do stuff.  For example, instead of multiplying by 9, I add a place zero and then subtract one of itself.

    Let's say, 14x18: 2x7x2x9.  7x9 = 63.  126.  240+12 = 252.  Much better than saying, okay, 14 * 10 = 140, adding to 14 * 8 = 80 + 32 = 112, 140 + 112 = 252.
  • edited 2011-05-18 01:51:21
    "16 variables in 16 equations"

    y would do

    I figure it might come up for finite elements analysis. Don't know why you wouldn't do something like that without a computer, though.

    The largest system I know is 10 variables in 10 equations large (finding the reactions to a force in an axle fitted in between two walls).
  • If you can't count back change at a register that isn't nary a strike against you.

    Yes it is. I can only do evening shifts in tandem with someone else at the fraternity bar because I'm too slow with calculating bigger orders, amongst other things. And afternoon shifts are boring as hell, especially now that most classes are over.
  • Morgan Freeman is God
    In my college mathematics class you're not allowed to use a calculator at all.
  • edited 2011-05-18 07:56:10
    Has friends besides tanks now
    @ Glenn: Breaking the steps down that much doesn't seem tedious to you? I couldn't imagine going from 126 to 240+12. Then again, I have little trouble carrying numbers anyway, and my method probably wouldn't work for most people either.

    When doing multi-digit problems, I usually multiply the larger number by the smaller one, going from leftmost digits to rightmost.
  • edited 2011-05-18 08:14:44
    "I couldn't imagine going from 126 to 240+12."

    Really? It's easier than breaking the numbers down into factors and keeping track of them.

    I've never found mental math very difficult, though.
  • No calculators, no pen & paper, fingers & toes only, Final Destination.
  • Likes cheesecake unironically.
    In the job I'm learning, I'm fucked if I don't have a calculator.

    I mean, seriously, try to calculate the feed rate, that a milling machine needs to mill a specific work piece, in your head. It's a very simple thing, but I could never do it without a calculator.
  • I'm pretty sure no one would object to using calculators for physics calculations like that.
  • edited 2011-05-18 11:32:53
    Has friends besides tanks now
    "Really? It's easier than breaking the numbers down into factors and keeping track of them."

    Well, I don't do that either, to be fair. On, say, 18 x 14, I just do 18 x 10 (180) to 18 x 4 (72), entirely skipping factoring and just doing bigger multiplications that are still smaller than taking the whole number at once. Which is to say, double-digit by single digit.

    Or triple digit by single digit x times, if I'm multiplying a three-digit number by some other number. And so on.
  • I do that, too, thought I'd do 14*20 (280) - 14*2 (28)
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