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Wanting a darker and edgier Pokemon
Because it always works out so well:
Comments
I actually liked Shadow The Hedgehog
So did I. It was still silly though.
I think what people mean when they ask for a darker Pokemon is a more mature and better written Pokemon. Which they delivered in B/W.
Oh don't get me wrong, it was balls-to-the-wall retarded, but it was amusing. And playable. Somewhat.
Where's that damn successful franchise transition to darker material?
Apparently Mega Man X.
I think the stories of Megaman X games actually work quite a bit worse than in the classic series. They just aren't... good enough to justify how much more seriously they're meant to be taken. The classic series games had silly plots, but it seemed more... intentional, I guess. Megaman X definitely was successful from a gameplay perspective though, but it's not the gameplay that's darker and edgier, so...
Some of the Megaman Zero stories were good, in comparison to most of the series. And Megaman X had a good story, albeit not mindblowing or incredibly impressive.
I don't think they mean blood and gore, but looking around at the various Pokemon material (including fanfiction and the mangas), I don't think that's what they mean either.
It seems they're looking for something closer to Pokemon Special than the anime; with deaths, things actually happening to the characters in the story, and stuff like that.
Ultimately Mega Man X was fun and not much else mattered. At least most of it was anyw
BURN
BURN
BURN TO THE GROU
BURN
BURN TO THE GROUND
We do not talk about Mega Man X 7, Bee
At least X8 was... not awful, at least.
X8 wasn't exactly a gem, but it had enough kickass music to justify its existence.
Fuck, the Lumine and Jacob's Ladder themes alone were reason enough to make that game.
X8 was much better than X7. But, well, the list of things that are better than X7 is pretty long.
X8 was better by default. The fact that it was better enough to actually be playable was the kicker.
Seriously though, what is not utterly kickass about this?!
You only wish elevators at ritzy hotels and stuff were that badass.
... I'm surprised at just how fast this thread derailed.
Meh. It's tangentially related and you can't squeeze as much out of a specific topic anyway.
Really, the Pokemon games have been known to get pretty damn dark. I mean, we've got mafias, Lavender Tower (and FYI you may or may not be responsible for putting Gary's Raticate there), everything ever about Mewtwo, Colosseum/XD hinge around a gang that specializes in soul rape, Red/Blue Rescue have you ostracized and hunted by your home during an impending apocalypse, and not to mention just about every other subplot in Time/Darkness/Sky (most notably, your own excruciating death and Darkrai trying to egg you into suicide).
I think the main point about asking for a darker Pokemon story is that we know they're one of the franchises that's been known to pull it off tastefully and with restraint, and use a rich setting and excellent sense of atmosphere to pull off some really awesome moments -- yet nearly all of what happens is still generic interchangeable cookie-cutter tournaments because I WANNA BE THE BEST.
One of the problems with actually trying to pull off a more epic confrontation is that the engine basically revolves around killing absolutely everything in 1-2 hits. I mean, you've got this epic Primal Dialga theme, but you hear maybe fifteen seconds of it because the fight consists of Violent Seed, X-Eye Seed, walk up, and punch him twice -- and deviating much from this ends with you getting twoshot. The Legendary fights are all of ten seconds to redzone them, then ten minutes of blandly throwing Ultra Balls and chugging potions. And so on. I mean hell, even Final Fantasy I bosses were less decisive and shallow than that.
Dark is more than just the background setting of the world, or even the plot elements used within the game. Really, the Pokemon games are kind of silly and lighthearted. Nothing overly serious ever happens, and many, many silly things happen all the time. Everything is kind of cute-ified, which gives the entire visual aspect of the game a cutesy feel that runs at odds with anything approaching a serious atmosphere.
There are moments within each game that feel dark, but they're very rarely more than about fifteen seconds, and there's maybe one or two a game.
The Mystery Dungeon games are a lot darker, I'll give you that. However, even then, you're able to defeat the final-epic-ultra-bad-guy-with-mega-superpowers by... spitting seeds at it.
The Pokemon games rarely rely on a fight with the Pokemon for the ultimate conclusion. Yes, there's usually a fight with the Legendary Pokemon of the game at some point, but for the most part, there's a final confrontation with a Trainer who is capable of demolishing you the same way you can demolish him that serves as the climax of the game. Blue in the first game, Lance/Red in the second game, Steven in the third game, Cyrus and then Cynthia in the fourth, and N and then Ghetsis in the fifth.
Ultimately, Pokemon really is a kid's game. It's not going to be overly serious, it's kind of cutesy, it has dark moments (Which I would contend are more serious moments than dark moments) and it's a game that revolves around you capturing giant lethal monsters in tennis balls. There's only so serious a story you can make out of that without it seeming ridiculous and/or shifting the tone far away from where it has sat for five games now.
Jak and Daxter? :P
If you don't limit yourself with video games, but include obscure TV shows, there's Ultra Galaxy mega Monster Battle, which is rather Pokemon-like in concept*. Being an Ultraman spinoff, monsters die a lot. Admittedly, it's probably not that dark, but it begins with the protagonists discovering an entire city/planet overrun with monsters, and no sign of survivors.
Thread title just made me think of that.
* Although Ultra shows have done the "monsters in storage devices" concept way back in the 60s.
The Legend of Zelda, as much as it goes back and forth.
In fact, in context of Zelda, it doesn't seem to matter at all.
That said, I believe that essentially goes for most things. How dark and edgy something isn't has no impact on the overall quality of a work, merely its audience (and often pretension). Being dark and edgy when it's inappropriate just acts contrary to what's effective. We shouldn't be asking for anything to be darker or lighter for the sake of that quality alone, but for what it can bring in terms of possibility -- for instance, the Witcher books (and games) work because they can juxtapose the edginess with lightness.
After all, life isn't dark and edgy nor is it light and soft. We have these concepts because we can observe both of these first hand in different times and contexts. And when all is said and done, the most effective works of fiction use both narrative temperaments strongly anyway.