I shouldn't read/post in gender threads

Khwarizmi

I always go in feeling calm and interested, and end up feeling exhausted, insecure, extremely uncomfortable and absurdly misanthropic.

RedEyedAbyss

Now I curious as to how TvTropes's gender trope pages made you feel. Especially if you were ever involved in their discussions.

Khwarizmi

I don't think I've been actively involved in any of those trope discussions.  Certainly not recently.

The pages themselves aren't too bad for me, actually.

Central Avenue

I can relate, Khwarizmi.

Gender is one of those topics that interests me but makes me feel terrible at the same time. It doesn't help that I have a hard time even understanding my own thoughts/feelings regarding my own gender.

RedEyedAbyss

"I don't think I've been actively involved in any of those trope discussions."

That's probably why they weren't so bad for you.

I have bad memories of the amount of persecution complex-induced wank they had. They tried to find sexism in everything.

Anonus

I don't feel misanthropic as much as confused, though some misanthropy does seem to leech in at times. (No points for guessing who got me interested in the subject in the first place)

Khwarizmi

^^ Hm.  The other possibility is that I really do perceive sexism all over the place, so they don't strike me as off.

^ The misanthropy tends to be of the irrational "why don't we kill off the species and start over" variety.  Which is stupid because the basis of that is precisely the kind of idiotic thinking that makes me dislike progressivism/egalitarianism/whatever you want to call it - the idea that any kind of inequality is an unacceptable outrage that must be fixed at the expense of anything else.

Well, that's one reason it's stupid.  It's also stupid because it entails planetary genocide, which I know I don't seriously want.

Central Avenue

Admittedly, I don't feel misanthropic much, either.

(I was confusing "misanthropic" for "misandric". Sometimes I think I have an irrational hatred of men/masculinity)

Khwarizmi

I don't think I'm a misandrist.  There are aspects of masculine behaviour which I dislike, but I don't hate men.

Anonus

I guess I was using "misanthropy" to mean "we're such arbitrary creatures and it makes me sick sometimes".

^I second this.

Khwarizmi

I hate gender and I hate people who expect others to conform to it.

Except no, I don't, not most of the time.  It's something gender threads specifically induce.

Central Avenue

^^^ I don't think I hate men either, really. But I hate the idea of myself as a man, somehow.
(Though much less than I used to, as I've realized that the idea of myself as a woman isn't much better)

^^ That I can agree with.

^ That I can also agree with.

Khwarizmi

God, what is wrong with me?

I'm sorry for the misanthropy thing.  That was way out of line.

Gelzo

Huh. I'm not sure I understand what's going on here.

But as for me, I think I can accept that there are people who can't help having a gender identity that is different from how they were born physically, and I guess I don't think that they should have to step in line even if they can help it. However, I don't think gender should be all that much of a concern and I think it's kind of silly when people get worked up about it.

GLORIOUSLeader

OP: Stay away from Love Happiness' threads, then.

For me, sexuality is the possession of male, female, both, or neither sex organs; gender is the way one presents themselves towards others. So a drag queen is of female gender, but male sexuality. 

Gelzo

Then lesbians have male sexuality?

GLORIOUSLeader

I revised it. So lesbians have male gender and female sexuality.

Yes, I am basing gender on predisposed social norms of properly fucking. Please don't judge me for that; it's just a convenience thing. 

Anonus

Love Happiness was for a time striking me as an extreme version of Central Avenue. He seems to have left that, though. (I guess a failed suicide attempt changed his view on things)

Khwarizmi

I think sexuality is something else altogether.  Lesbians aren't male in any sense.

Love Happiness reminds me of a horrifically extreme version of a slightly younger version of myself on a horrible, horrible day.  It unsettles me.

Anonus

Sexuality is complicated, but somehow more comprehensible to me than gender.

Khwarizmi

Sexuality = who/what you are attracted to, and how you express that.

That, I can cope with.

GLORIOUSLeader

So then sexuality and sexual identification are two different things? I suppose I can dig it. 

Central Avenue

I got the Love Happiness = extreme version of myself vibe, too. It made me feel kinda bad, because I could relate and wanted to help but could not.

It actually made me feel bad for AU because know I now how he feels when I bitch about my gender

Sexuality is complicated, but somehow more comprehensible to me than gender.

Same here.

Gelzo

Oh, so when you were talking about sexuality, you meant sex.

Anonus

^^^^I meant the wide spectrum of human sexuality, or at least the way I see it.

^^You felt bad for me?

Central Avenue

You felt bad for me?

Well, yes, because I didn't like the feeling of wanting to help but being unable to, and that's something you've expressed many times in conversations with me.

GLORIOUSLeader

^^^ By sexuality, I meant sexual identification. I accidentally left real sexuality completely out of the equation.

Khwarizmi

Lesbians have female sex, female gender identification, gynephilic sexuality, and may be perceived as adopting a male or female gender role.  There.

This has turned into a gender thread, hasn't it.

GLORIOUSLeader

GET OUT BEFORE YOU TIRE

And also yes and yes. 

Khwarizmi

*flees*

Anonus

I have never liked that feeling, especially as I consider you a friend.