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The Bechdel Test

SchitzoSchitzo
edited 2011-06-24 21:50:39 in General
They're somethin' else.
Or as I like to call it, Yet Another NoTrueScotsman Trope.
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Comments

  • PonicalicaPonicalica
    (void)
    The real purpose of the Bechdel test was not as some sort of serious suggestion but to show how few movies pass it and how ridiculous this is.
  • ninjaclownninjaclown
    ^This.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    ^^ Doesn't "how ridiculous this is" sort of depend on it being a serious suggestion?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    No. Ridicule does not have to be serious.

    Think of it more as "lawl wtf this is so true" sort of behaviour. It will make you think about it later, but it's not intended to change people's behaviour.
  • CommandoDudeCommandoDude
    CRIMINAL SCUM!
    Men always pay for women's movie tickets anyways, so hollywood has something of an obligation to pander to us.


  • ninjaclownninjaclown
    Okay, that made me laugh.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I'm not getting the hate for the Bechdel Test. As far as I'm concerned, it oughtta graduate from guideline to being a full-fledged law. If you can't meet it in every damn story you write, then you shouldn't write.

    Note that it would only apply to Americans.
  • BlueeyedratBlueeyedrat
    edited 2011-06-25 00:54:32
    "I've come to the conclusion that this is a VERY STUPID IDEA."
    Personally, I think the test should be a chart-- a 4-by-4 grid, to represent if [work] has passed each stage of the Bechdel Test and the "reverse" Bechdel. Then compare the distribution.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-06-25 00:54:14
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    ^^
  • BlackHumorBlackHumor
    ^Neither, I agree with him. Well, except for that last line, obviously.

    50% of the people should not get 0% of the dialogue in a story. Pretty much without regard to what the story is, if you can't even pass the Bechdel Test one time in two hours, there is something wrong.
  • BlueeyedratBlueeyedrat
    "I've come to the conclusion that this is a VERY STUPID IDEA."
    Keep in mind, having to pass the Test in "every damn story" is kind of limiting. What if, say, you were to write a story with no real dialogue at all? Or what if there's only one female character and one male character?
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    edited 2011-06-25 01:28:36
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    And what is trollish or stupid about wanting female characters who aren't useless or stupid, pray tell?

    Or was it just the "only Americans" thing? Cuz well, thing is the Japanese need a completely different test, that goes like this:

    1. If three or more male characters are ever in the vicinity of a vulnerably-dressed (or undressed) girl...
    2. And they never wind up taking advantage of it, either knowingly or accidentally.

    (Cuz Japan's problem, see, is that they seem to think all men think with their dicks)

    ^ I'd say those kind of stories just get an automatic pass, because obviously they're something unusual that likely won't go into the kind of territory Bechdel is meant to point out.
  • ┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻
    Tableflipper
    If Japan thought all men think with their dicks they would encourage parents to send their children off to child porn industrie- oh wait.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    Let's say hypothetically that a story has two or more female characters that are important to the plot, but don't converse because plot-related reasons don't give them the opportunity. What then?
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I would say it gets a pass as long as the women aren't shown to be overly obsessed with romance.
  • ┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻
    Tableflipper
    What if everyone in the work is overly obsessed with romance?
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    It gets a pass, because everyone is being discriminated against equally.
  • DonZabuDonZabu

    I don't think the test is very well defined in its purpose; that, or its purpose is vague intentionally, which I don't think is a good thing either. Just read this passage from the TV Tropes page:

    >This is because the Bechdel Test is not meant to give a scorecard of a work's overall level of feminism. It is entirely possible for a film to pass without having overt feminist themes — in fact, the original example of a movie that passes is Alien, which, while it has feminist subtexts, is mostly just a sci-fi/action/horror flick. A movie can easily pass the Bechdel Test and still be incredibly misogynistic. Conversely, it's also possible for a story to fail the test and still be strongly feminist in other ways, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.

  • CommandoDudeCommandoDude
    CRIMINAL SCUM!
    Which. In essence. Means the test is totally useless in the first place.
  • SchitzoSchitzo
    They're somethin' else.
    Like I said. No True Scotsman yet again.
  • inkblotinkblot
    000
    It's best used as a statement against films in general, not specific films.
  • SchitzoSchitzo
    They're somethin' else.
    If Pratt's statement is a reflection of what most writers actually think, then it would really only discredit anyone who ever invokes the trope ever.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Or was it just the "only Americans" thing? Cuz well, thing is the Japanese need a completely different test, that goes like this:

    And non-American/Japanese writers?
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-06-25 10:00:01
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    Silly Cygan, don't you know that all media is either American or Japanese?
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    Would a Portal movie pass?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    J.K. Rowling is British.
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    If they gave Chel dialogue, I'd count it.
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    -begins scripting Portal movie-
  • FrodoGoofballCoTVFrodoGoofballCoTV
    edited 2011-06-25 10:59:58

    It's best used as a statement against films in general, not specific films.

    This.  The issue is far more fail the Bechtel test than the reverse test.

    Hmm...  My stories:

  • BlackHumorBlackHumor

    Let's say hypothetically that a story has two or more female
    characters that are important to the plot, but don't converse because
    plot-related reasons don't give them the opportunity. What then?
    Have you ever seen a work with two or more MALE characters that doesn't do this? This is a really shitty excuse.

    Passes are given to works that wouldn't pass a reverse Bechdel test either, though.

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