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Deconstruction

NovaNova
edited 2011-08-18 11:26:37 in General
If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
A deconstruction is the process of exploring the categories, concepts and meanings behind a word, topic or genre, and the history behind them.

It is not an inherently darker and edgier thing, and nor does it mean taking the usual aspects of a genre and adding a twist to them to make it seem different, darker, or more realistic. While all of these things can happen in a deconstruction, they are not an integral part of deconstructions themselves.

I am a bit tired right now, and cannot really get into this. But I hope people can use this as a bit of a discussion topic.
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Comments

  • GLORIOUSLeaderGLORIOUSLeader
    When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    Lemme guess: TVTropes?
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    YES.

    Deconstruction has lost pretty much all of its meaning on TV Tropes.
  • GLORIOUSLeaderGLORIOUSLeader
    When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    I first thought of deconstruction as examining the workings of a work of media from the perspective of real life. For example, "What if x existed in the real world? What would be the same? What would be different?" Of course, as it turns out that's not a very good definition.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Sort of. It's not just a TVTropes thing, although I have seen it used wrongly a lot of the time there. This bit was inspired by something I saw on a Buffy fansite.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    For further reading.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Just read on Jacques Derrida and be done with it.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    ...I should refresh pages more often. >_<
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    The idea behind the TvTropes site has a lot of potential, but the place has too many participants that don't know what they're doing. I kinda gave up on it when I saw the bloated mess of tropes in the The Office page.
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    What does Deconstruction even mean anymore?
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    Cygan said what it means in the first post.
  • NovaNova
    edited 2011-08-18 11:55:29
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    See the link I posted above.

    ^ And.
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
  • SchitzoSchitzo
    They're somethin' else.
    I always hated how people viewed Deconstruction as "ZOMG INSTANT GOOD WRITING".

    Fuck no, it doesn't. Neither does subverting tropes for subversions own sake. If that word even means anything anymore.
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    subverting: doing the opposite of what was expected. It makes for very good writing if done in a good way, since being unpredictable can be twisty.

    Deconstruction I have only seen mentioned on NGE, Buffy and Gargoyles, so I don't know.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Attention to detail, describe only what's useful to a story.

    Red herring, Subversion of the above phrase.

    Chevok's gun, Subversion to the Red Herring.

    Playing Attention to detail straight is now a subversion because a subversion exists.
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    It's annoying because the way Vorpy defined subverting sounds like irony...
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-18 12:45:32
    You can change. You can.
    No, wait, no, disregard. I suck cocks.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    ~starts choking~

    @Juan: OwO
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
     It's about time you admitted it.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Not like that, honeykins. Just a silly 4Chan meme.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    You know what Love is Juan?

    It's not a tool disguised as a meme used to inflict physical or emotional harm against another.

    That's for sure.

    It could be a noun, but the noun of love doesn't ring close to the truth.


  • ViviVivi
    edited 2011-08-18 13:00:04
    $80+ per session


    Juan makes me think of Shadow.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    OK, let's get serious up in this bitch.

    The concept in TvTropes about deconstruction annoys me because this is a current problem with the whole place (And hence why I decided to just quit on the site's wiki). I'll list my peeves and problems with it here, for your entertainment:

    1) It's taking a term that means something different in the academic world and then changes the meaning to allow for maximum pseudointellectual circlejerkery

    2) It also has the problem that it brings the implication that the more a work is aware of tropes, the better it is (Anyone with a degree of logic and reason can see why this is flawed logic right there)

    3) It also implies that the more a work looks down on fictional trappings, the better it is (This is, a work that looks at fiction and thinks that it should be more realistic)

    Now, the problem here is not that this things are bad and should never be done. (Except the first one) They can be done and they can be done well. But they don't imply quality. Good writing implies quality. Not good ideas, but good execution of those ideas is what makes a story. 


  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    Number 2 annoys me the most.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-18 13:14:45
    You can change. You can.
    Now, I do have to admit that I enjoy deconstruction as TvT defines it. I like Watchmen precisely because it's a sociopolitical study of a world where vigilantism is prevalent and even almost glorified. I like Gotham Central because it's a look at what happens to the citizens of a city populated by insane criminals and the like.I like Unforgiven because it's a look at the psyche of the gunslinger, the man who murders mercilessly. Wheras in old Westerns, this man is looked at as if he was a hero, even though he is a murderer, in Unforgiven we understand that murder is final. It's ending another man's life. What he is, who he was, who he could be.

    I like this things because they are a new approach to fiction and their own genres. I think they are amazing and interesting and provide for fascinating insight into human nature, in both a fictional and a metafictional level.

    But here's the deal. They don't provide said approach just because of their nature as deconstruction. They use it as a mean to do it, yes, but these works don't depend on it to say what they need to say. And said messages and themes can be explored in different ways. The problem is when you assume that the work must be realistic in order to do this.
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Tropes are tools,

    When you use a tool well, the job goes well.

    But never forget the existence of a tool is nothing more than to make the job easier to do.
  • SchitzoSchitzo
    They're somethin' else.
    I just hate how everything has to be so post-modern and self aware all the time. Fuck that shit. Self referential shit is so cheap.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    edited 2011-08-19 09:39:10
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I think the TV Tropes usage of "deconstruction" has simply encountered definition drift.

    It's easiest to take apart story elements when you throw them into the wrong setting just to see how they hold up.
  • RottweilerRottweiler
    Inside, too dark to read
    Deconstruction is what Derrida meant by it.

    However, no one can understand Derrida; even Foucault said it was all a scam.
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    ^ Why I don't feel bad about TV Tropes using its own definition of "deconstruction".
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