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My Idea For A Superman Elseworlds Will Never Ever Be Printed

TheConductorTheConductor
edited 2011-09-28 13:24:51 in General
Here's how it goes:


Jor-El sends his baby boy, Kal-El to Earth in a rocket.

Rather than landing in the present day, Kal-El's ship lands some 2000 years ago.

Three scholars see the ship hurtling towards Earth and follow it to it's landing point.

A stable in a tiny town.

In it, they find the ship and a transmission plays from it. The only word they understand is Kalel (which resembles the Hewbrew word for Voice of God), from this they deduce that the child is God himself and give unto a married couple from Bethelhem to raise.

So it turns out that Superman is Jesus.
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Comments

  • AHRAHR
    Thank goodness.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    You say it as if Superman wasn't a metaphor for Jesus already.
  • IcalasariIcalasari
    No rainbow star
    So how would he die on the cross then?

    Heck, how would they even nail him to it?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Kryptonite.
  • TheConductorTheConductor
    Kryptonite AND for fun I was gonna have Lex Luthor/Pontius Pilate dress in green armour with white spikes all over it. Ala Doomsday.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    You say it as if Superman wasn't a metaphor for Jesus already.


    Because we all know Jesus solved everything by beating people up.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    A father sends his only child to the human race so he can teach them to be better people.

    same premise, different execution.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    edited 2011-09-28 16:05:38
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Thumped.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Whether he's a satiosfactory metaphor for Jesus that's another matter entirely, but he is intended to be one. So maybe execution wasn't the right word, but whatever.

    And, welp, to quote Kal-El, ""They can be a great people, Kal-El, if they wish to be. They only lack a light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you.... my only son."
  • All NinesAll Nines
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Whoa, there, Edmond.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-09-28 16:08:32
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    ^^^ ...Was that necessary?

    I love when I forget to refresh and a mod ninjas me >:
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-09-28 16:08:08
    You can change. You can.
    He just called me retarded. A bit subpar for him. 

    Also, I woulda recommend not thumping the whole thing and just the personal attack, but that's just me.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    edited 2011-09-28 16:15:23
    Has friends besides tanks now
    I considered leaving the second paragraph, but I figure, if he has the time to post, he has the time to post respectfully, especially over something like interpretation of comic book characters. Not really something to be calling people retarded over.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I love you, evermod.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Not sure if sarcastic (I only ask because I've probably accidentally left worse posts lying around).
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    ^^ I second this, non-sarcastically.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Not sarcasm.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Okie dokie, then. -goes back to waiting for Cup-A-Soup to cool down-
  • TheConductorTheConductor
    Ical: I forgot to address your first point. How did Superman die on the cross? Well, my pans for the comic were this; he didn't die.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I considered leaving the second paragraph, but I figure, if he has the time to post, he has the time to post respectfully, especially over something like interpretation of comic book characters. Not really something to be calling people retarded over.


    Okay, I'm fine with being thumped if people are getting the totally wrong idea about what was said anyway.

    If you remember, I specifically quoted the "same premise, different execution" part, which inherently makes the argument that "these two stories have something in common, ergo, they're the same premise." By that logic, you could argue that Alice in Wonderland and The Hobbit are "same premise, different execution." Oh, hey, both Wing Commander and Gradius are about ships shooting down other ships! "Same premise, different execution." Hey, the conquests of Alexander the Great and World War II were both wars, right?

    And actually, I was posting pretty respectfully. What I actually said was "Juan, you're better than to reason like this." That's a compliment, not an insult.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    Has friends besides tanks now
    No, it definitely appeared to be an insult. The way it was worded, it looked much more like "come on, even you're not usually this stupid" than a compliment.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Reductio ad absurdum, nice.

    Yeah, I said it was bad wording on my part, I get that, but as I said before, there is a Messianic subtext to Superman. This is not amazing, new or mindblowing. It's just a common thing since, what, the Mario Puzo/Richard Donner movie?

  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Reductio ad absurdum, nice.


    Going by memory and my shoestring knowledge of Latin here, isn't that a phrase that means "reducing to absurdity"?

    The problem here is, I'm not "reducing" anything because there's nothing in your original statement to reduce. You said, and I blockquote:
    A father sends his only child to the human race so he can teach them to be better people.

    same premise, different execution.


    You yourself are highlighting one inconsequential similarity between two utterly different works and then jumping straight to saying "same premise." All I did was do the exact same damn thing to two works of literature, two video games and two actual wars, to highlight why that's a flawed analysis.

    I didn't "reduce" anything, and if I made it look absurd its because it already did.

    Yeah, I said it was bad wording on my part, I get that, but as I said before, there is a Messianic subtext to Superman.


    If you read enough literary analysts then there's a messianic subtext to just about every character in every work of fiction ever.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    If you read enough literary analysts then there's a messianic subtext to just about every character in every work of fiction ever.

    OK, and this invalidates any argument towards Superman having messianic subtext, because...?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I didn't "reduce" anything, and if I made it look absurd its because it already did.

    No, there is a definite Messiah bent to Superman. The execution may be different- Superman punches the bad guys, while Jesus redeems them in his pacifist manner- but the premise is still the same; the only son of the Big Guy up there is sent down to Earth because the people of Earth are lost sheep and need someone to lead them.

    Jesus and Superman do it in a different way, but the premise and the (in-universe) intent is still the same.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    edited 2011-09-28 19:23:41
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Simply put, "Messianic Subtexts" have become such a vague and intangible thing that there's really no practical difference between having one and not having one. Personally I don't consider a character as being "Messianic" unless they've got a lot in common with Jesus, and Superman really has... nothing.

    And you yourself argue that the Subtext was introduced by the movie, which came, what, 60-70 years after the comics began publication?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-09-28 19:24:33
    You can change. You can.
    ^^ And even then, Superman doesn't just punches bad guys. He often tries to be as good an example to people and teach them to be better. Hell, he normally tries to look for a peaceful decision before jumping in to fight if possible.

    ^ Again, it being done several times does not reduce what happens to this particular case. Judging from a perspective based on what other works do or don't is simply put, really faulty logic. 
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Again, it being done several times does not reduce what happens to this particular case


    Except that it does. An idea whose meaning has been expanded to include anything has lost all its meaning.

    Judging from a perspective based on what other works do or don't is simply put, really faulty logic.


    If you're going to say he's Messianic, you're inherently arguing that he's like the Messiah, which is Jesus. Therefore he has to have something in common. And it can't be something really generic. Otherwise I could say "he has feet. Jesus has feet. Ergo he's like Jesus!"

    I know you're going to claim that's reductio ad absurdum again, but there's a point you fail to understand, and that's how "language" works. We have these things called "words" and they mean something. There's a reason a plank of wood is a plank of wood and a cherry is a cherry, and why we don't say "cherry" when talking about planks of wood. Even the other kind of "cherry"--the one that gets popped--is called so because it has something noticably in common with the fruit (round shape and sometimes has red juice coming out of it), which is more than Superman has with Jesus.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-09-28 19:34:31
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    This is going to end well.

    ^ why would you choose that example
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    This is going to end well.

    Nope, because it ain't going no where.

    I could argue endlessly about this. But is there really a point?

    BIG FUCKING SPOILERS: Nope.
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