We are the 53%

Malkavian · 2011-10-15 19:51:35

Very few societies are purely one or the other these days, though U.S. has been regularly undoing the 'socialist' aspects of our economics since Reagan, though Bush jr. took it further than either Reagan or his pappy would have.

FrodoGoofballCoTV · 2011-10-15 20:03:50

I would say that Europe is 50% capitolist and 50% socialist, China is 65% capitolist and 35% communist, and the U.S. is 60% capitolist, 25% socialist, and 25% corporate welfare. We borrowed the extra 10% from China.

IMHO we'd be better off with 0% corporate welfare, 25% socialist, and 75% capitolist. But that's just me.

Schitzo · 2011-10-15 20:10:49

Ok, did a little research on the op's subject.

Whoa, gross. I applaud you guys for bending over and shit. I'm glad you're proud of it. Fuck you. You are not self made, you are not a steel snowflake. And you're still contributing to the problem, although indirectly. Get off your high horse.

Chagen · 2011-10-15 20:16:44

This is actually one of the problems with you guys.

You guys seem to always assume anything that doesn't fit with your views must automatically be some kind of joke. I don't get why.

First of all, how is acknowledging that you are part of the 53% somehow contributing to a "problem"?

Wicked223 · 2011-10-15 20:23:15

First of all, how is acknowledging that you are part of the 53% somehow contributing to a "problem"?

it's not acknowledging that they're in the 53%, it's calling the 47% lazy whiners for not being in the 53%.

That's why it's part of the problem: they've taken the third-world levels of income disparity in the U.S. and made it completely normal and expectable.

Chagen · 2011-10-15 20:26:01

I would say "life sucks, deal with it", but that would make me one of them, and that makes me Bad(TM) and I should Feel Bad(TM) for doing that.

Wicked223 · 2011-10-15 20:27:12

"life sucks, deal with it"

They are dealing with it, by calling out the people responsible, and not kindly submitting like a good wage slave.

CommandoDude · 2011-10-15 20:30:42

Most of these fuckers are total hypocrits. TYT was running a story on it earlier, how some dick was talking about how he was on food stamps and government aid, and then crawled up to a high paying job, as if he did so all on his own. Then went on to bitch about welfare bums.

THAT is the state of American mass media. It will indoctrinate anyone into believing bullshit stereotypes even to people who have EXPERIENCED welfare.

Also, this whole 53% crap is a load of horse shit. Just because I don't pay income taxes doesn't mean I don't pay taxes.

Malkavian · 2011-10-15 20:33:45

Clearly, the role of the government is to tell people 'life sucks, deal with it'.

Chagen · 2011-10-15 20:35:42

Really, I don't understand why people hate corporations so much.

Who do you think makes the laptop you are using and the bed you sleep in? Who makes sure that you have electricity when you hit the light switch?

That's the problem with Occupy Wall Street. They hate the very corporations which create the IMac they use to bitch about corporations with. How hypocritical.

Malkavian · 2011-10-15 20:38:29

Urmmm, no. People aren't against corporations. They're against what the corporations are doing to them.

Crimson · 2011-10-15 20:38:35

^^Just because they make stuff you buy doesn't give them the right to exploit you or the government for their own (and only their own) benefit.

FrodoGoofballCoTV · 2011-10-15 20:40:11

@Chagen: while I am a bit confused on your position on the whole, on that point I agree wholeheartedly.

I would add that there are at least some corporations that are not admirable. But that does not mean they are the root of all evil. I would claim most of us would not be alive today if it were not for goods and services produced by corporations.

Schitzo · 2011-10-15 20:43:16

In the words of Bob, THISTHREADISANUNWASHEDANUSANDILOVEIT

Wicked223 · 2011-10-15 20:47:11

Really, I don't understand why people hate the government so much.

Who do you think makes the roads that you walk on and the foundations your house is built in? Who makes sure that the energy infrastructure works when you hit the light switch?

That's the problem with the Tea Party. They hate the very government which creates the public properties they use to bitch about the government with. How hypocritical.

Schitzo · 2011-10-15 20:55:31

Just because they selectively give some dogs their bones doesn't mean they're completely forgiven and absolved. They've done a lot of dick moves in their time. It's not as black and white as absolute hate and appreciation.

MadassAlex · 2011-10-15 21:06:10

The thing about corporations is that they're unnecessary, essentially. There's no reason, with modern industrial might, that we couldn't produce complex computers and other technology without them. One prospective change socialism encourages is an industrial movement away from extreme surplus and towards a more reasonable number that represents actual product consumption. The saved resources can then be distributed or stockpiled according to need. When we repurpose our resource surpluses to meet human need, we'll get a taste of what post-scarcity society is like. It won't technically, truly be post-scarcity, but the surplus will ensure that there need be no competition over said resources. Without that scarcity and therefore that need to control resources, there's no reason to be an economic douchebag.

Looove and PEEEEEEAAAAAACE.

steel snowflake

This must become a magical girl show.

RedEyedAbyss · 2011-10-15 21:17:44

"Who do you think makes the laptop you are using and the bed you sleep in?"

Cheap foreign labour that's treated like shit?

CommandoDude · 2011-10-15 21:20:39

"Really, I don't understand why people hate corporations so much."

Criticizing corporations =/= Hating corporations

Holding corporations accountable for THEIR actions =/= Hating corporations.

Statements like these only make your reputation even worse Chagen.

Nova · 2011-10-15 21:20:48

There's no reason, with modern industrial might, that we couldn't produce complex computers and other technology without them

:C

dude

who do you think can even make them in mass amounts

RedEyedAbyss · 2011-10-15 21:22:33

Robots. Unless you meant who can organize the robots, at which point I would like to hear what Madass has to say.

Nova · 2011-10-15 21:42:35

Yeah, I mean who can organize them. One of the best inventions of the 1900's was mass production, simply because making many units of something costs a lot less than making them in smaller batches, due to the costs involved (Including the costs of running the equipment).

RocketDude · 2011-10-15 21:43:01

Guys, can you leave Chagen alone for a bit and get back to the bloody topic? (Seriously, your reactions are starting to annoy me more than the posts you react to.)

OWS is about making sure that our government stops being bought out by lobbyists and that corporations are held accountable for all the crap they've pulled.

Malkavian · 2011-10-15 21:44:47

It's a bit optimistic to say they're making sure of anything, but they're making demands and that's a good thing.

Nova · 2011-10-15 21:47:27

Guys, can you leave Chagen alone for a bit and get back to the bloody topic?

But I am discussing something unrelated to either.

delta534 · 2011-10-15 23:15:31

Here is my basic opinion of the "We Are the 53%" thing going on. It really makes me weep for humanity that the current American Dream is being reduced to working two jobs just to get by, because the average American has been taught that the secret to get ahead is just to work harder.

Malkavian · 2011-10-15 23:19:45

It's the same new age bullshit where people say you didn't get something because you didn't want it enough.

Perfect logic right? I mean, soldiers die because they didn't want to avoid those bullets enough after all.

DonZabu · 2011-10-15 23:30:07

Here's an article analyzing who makes up the other 47%, for whatever it's worth:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/99-percenters-53-percenters_n_1006672.html

Also, this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/conservatives-launch-we-are-the-53-percent-to-criticize-99-percenters/2011/10/10/gIQA70omaL_blog.html

FrodoGoofballCoTV · 2011-10-16 00:49:36

It really makes me weep for humanity that the current American Dream is being reduced to working two jobs just to get by, because the average American has been taught that the secret to get ahead is just to work harder.

soldiers die because they didn't want to avoid those bullets enough after all

I'm part of the 47%, and I'm NOT proud of it. I don't have a shot at the 1%, and that's OK. I just want to be part of the 53%.

We live in a harsh reality. The most you can do is try to stack the deck in your favor. We shouldn't look down on the unlucky or the lucky. The statistics require when there is risk some must fail in order for others to succeed. If no one fails, we aren't doing what we need to do to achieve something worthwhile. If no one succeeds, the whole system fails and we're all screwed.

What good does it do the 99% to hate the 1% who give them jobs? What good does it do the 53% to hate those less fortunate than themselves? It doesn't fix anything. It only makes us feel better about ourselves because we are not part of the "other" group. It's alot like this.

The american dream is, IMHO, unsustainable anyway. There may be a solution out there, but I don't see it.

Malkavian · 2011-10-16 00:52:13

What good does it do the 99% to hate the 1% who give them jobs?

See if they actually did give us jobs we probably wouldn't hate them.

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