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The General understanding of Libertarianism.

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Comments

  • IanExMachinaIanExMachina
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    ^^ If you'd care to PM if you don't want to text wall as I am curious.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Well, the main part of not wanting to textwall is "it would take forever to write."

    Might post something more thorough in the future, but not right now.
  • IanExMachinaIanExMachina
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    Haha, fair enough.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Then again you hav ea biuas you live in a country where the economy was probobly controlled by the state for most of its run we however started out with a free market but then devolved int o a state controlled market.
  • IanExMachinaIanExMachina
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    Also with this state controlled market thing, China didn't get fucked by the recession, and it's economy/market is pretty good, it is also under strict control hence why it wasn't fucked over.


  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    So you're syaing government intervention is the only way to have things done right? Tjhat a free society and free market can not exist? That's unsettling to say the least.
  • CaptainFargleCaptainFargle
    @Tnu: There's so many things wrong with what you just said I almost don't know where to begin. They key word being almost. 

    Number 1: GRAMMAR

    Number 2: Your understanding of the British Medical system is so outrageously incorrect I'm having hard time not laughing your face. Here's a tip, don't try and act authoritative about things you know nothing about. The NHS isn't even close to being a monopoly. The NHS is there to provide medical security for everyone in the country. It exists solely for the purpose of making sure that, no matter what, if you need healthcare in the UK you can get it. It is the baseline, the safety net. You want Private Care that's faster/goes above and beyond what the NHS provides? You're free to go to BUPA or whoever and pay for it. 
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Ok maybe not monopoly but eveyrbody is still forced to pay in to it whether they use it or not is that fair?
  • CaptainFargleCaptainFargle
    I'm being ninja'd to hell and back here but such is the nature of having to make somewhat more in depth posts. 

    @Tnu: The problem with a completely Free Market/Society is that it inevitably leads to unfair practises and a lot of people getting hurt. A lot of people on the bottom rung falling through the system with no help. Regulation is necessary to ensure restraint on all sides and make sure that the vulnerable aren't being abused. 


  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    and a state controlled market/society doesn't?
  • CaptainFargleCaptainFargle
    edited 2011-05-30 20:29:22
    Yes, it is fair that everyone has to pay into it because it's a societal safety net that operates under a universal service obligation. It doesn't matter who you are or what circumstances you're in, the NHS is obligated to care for you if you need it. 

    It's set up by everyone, for everyone, and so everyone has to pay. Simple. 
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    ok so you would hold a gun to a crowd and force them to shell out money for a service?
  • IanExMachinaIanExMachina
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    No as we don't like guns in the UK.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    but that's what your advocating the government has a monopoly on the use of force against the people.
  • CaptainFargleCaptainFargle
    edited 2011-05-30 20:33:47
    A gun? No. That would imply that I intended to kill/seriously wound if you didn't pay. 

    This might come as a complete shock to you, but we don't shoot people for tax evasion. 
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    that's what the state does if you don't comply to every little thing you re punished by means of force.  how does nobody see this?
  • NyktosNyktos
    edited 2011-05-30 20:37:32
    a little muffled
    Edit: If I can't explain what I'm trying to say, I probably shouldn't say anything.
  • CaptainFargleCaptainFargle
    Force yes, shooting no. You don't pay your taxes you get arrested for tax evasion/go to prison. That's how law enforcement works. 

    It's part of having rules. 
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    THis is why I utterly despise society it's a very contemptible thing people will justify any violence for whatever reason "because god says so" or "the greater good" or whatever. if J. M.  Kynes knew anythign would we be stuck in this recession?
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    Your mind works in very strange ways.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    if we're going there take it to a PM.
  • CaptainFargleCaptainFargle
    See here's the thing Tnu. The funny little thing that you don't seem to get no matter how many times we all have to explain it to you. 

    Society is not optional. 

    It's part of being human. Humans are social creatures. It's hardwired into us. No society = No Humanity. 
  • NyktosNyktos
    edited 2011-05-30 20:40:50
    a little muffled
    if we're going there take it to a PM.
    I'd rather not, actually. I just fail to see how "governments are inherently coercive" turns into "the recession is Keynes's fault"!
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    So i'm force dto be a slave to society no matter what? whatever the majority (democracy) the minority (oligarchy) or the one (monarchy) says i'm stuck with at the threat of force?
  • CaptainFargleCaptainFargle
    Yes. 

    It's part of being human. Welcome to the world. 
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    Well, you could go move to a deserted island. But you'd probably find it impossible to produce all the things you need to survive on your own, so maybe you could invite some of your libertarian friends and split up the duties and WAIT HOLD ON THAT'S A FUCKING SOCIETY.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    My god society scares me people in general scare me that you can justify coercion for the sake of some societal reason is beyond me. having the state control the economy is inviting them to controle the social issues and vica verca. you can't have one form of tyranny without the other.
  • NyktosNyktos
    edited 2011-05-30 20:48:23
    a little muffled
    Why not?

    Also, how would you propose to live without society?
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    edited 2011-05-30 20:50:13
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Tnu, without the supposed "tyranny" of society, you have the "tyranny" of nature.

    Keep in mind that in this world, there is no such thing as truly free lunch.

    Also, I'm moving this thread to the politics category, where it belongs.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    edited 2011-05-30 20:50:45
    because if you sya "controle this for us" you i nvit e others to say "controle this for us" if you allow the government to break its rules to do what you like you invite it to do the same for things you don't like the welfare-state and the warfare-state are interlocked.  it's a fairly simple thing liberty or tyranny so many people pick tyranny for the "greater good" freedom is not a means to an end it is an end in itself.

    Well exactly Glenn so the government is supposed to force you to buy their lunch?
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